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COVER STORY: ASTROLOGY
Interview: Murli Manohar Joshi
"Astrology Course Isn't My policy.
That's UGC's Baby."
Union HRD Minister Murli Manohar Joshi is
not a stranger to controversies. But the proposal of the University Grants
Commission (UGC) to offer a university course in Vedic astrology has put
him in the eye of a storm. Joshi spoke to Senior Editor Sumit Mitra
last week. Excerpts:
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"Why should the Marxists object
to astrology? Marxism has failed. But isn't Marxism still taught
in universities?"
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Q. What is your role in introducing the astrology
course?
A. Nothing.
The UGC takes independent decisions. The ministry does not order the UGC.
In the NCERT, I am the chairman. In the UGC, I am nobody.
Q. You appoint its chairman.
A.
The Cabinet appoints him.
Q. What is your personal opinion about introducing
astrology?
A. As
a minister, I don't express my personal belief about this or that. Astrology
is practised in the country by millions. Newspapers publish astrology
columns. It finds a place on television. These are well-known facts.
Q. But is it a science?
A. That
again is a matter of interpretation. As far as the UGC is concerned, it
has decided to give an arts degree in astrology, not science. About whether
astrology is a science-there is a big debate on whether scientism is science,
whether science is free inquiry or whether it should be limited to the
traditional methods of inquiry. Many renowned scientists are speaking
the language of mysticism. People have been asking why the word science
should be used for political science. Why use it with social science?
Q. But does astrology follow the scientific
method as shown by Galileo and Francis Bacon?
A. It
is again a misrepresentation that Galileo and Bacon had put together a
system of scientific inquiry. What they did ultimately became Newton's
reductionist approach. But that got challenged by (James Clerk) Maxwell.
Darwin's theory (of evolution) did not fit into the Galilean school of
reasoning. Quantum mechanics has altered many conventional ways of thinking.
It has brought probability to the fore. It has raised questions on what
is observed and what is observable.
Q. Is astrology an unconventional science
according to you?
A.
I strongly believe that the academic world should engage in a serious
debate about what is science and what is not. We have to decide whether
the reductionist approach is correct or the holistic approach is.
Q. Are you for the holistic approach?
A.
I am a strong advocate of the holistic approach. As for astrology, it
is for the astrologers to decide. Astrology has various streams-Indian,
Roman, Babylonian, Tajik and Central Asian.
Q. Why is the UGC following the Indian school?
Is it because it is considered holistic and has your support?
A. I
have no knowledge of astrology. I am not competent to compare the various
schools of astrology.
Q. Rationalists reject the prediction part
of astrology as it is based on the assumption that human destinies are
controlled by faraway planets.
A. I
don't know whether the (scientific) principles of force of attraction
of heavenly bodies are applied in astrology. But may I ask you why then
does the position of the moon affect the tides and even mould conditions
of the human mind?
Q. Maybe because the moon is nearer than
the astrologically important planets like Jupiter or Saturn.
A. Perhaps,
but let me say again that I don't know whether astrologers follow the
principles of physics.
Q. Do you think a degree in astrology will
help check charlatans passing themselves off as astrologers?
A. There
are charlatans everywhere. Aren't there charlatans in medicine too? Well,
the introduction of the degree system will certainly help in producing
a set of people with systematic knowledge of the subject. Many doctors,
engineers and bureaucrats attend the courses on astrology run by the Bharatiya
Vidya Bhavan.
Q. The opposition chief ministers have described
this as a move to put the clock back. What is your response?
A.
My position is very clear. If the 1986 NEP (National Education Policy)
was a move towards saffronisation, then my policy too is so, for I have
not moved an inch from the NEP.
Q. The astrology course was not thought of
in 1986.
A. That's
not my policy. It is the UGC's baby. It is offering this course to universities,
and it is up to the universities to decide if they want it. But there
is no deviation from NEP in the school curricula formulated by NCERT.
Q. Do you think the meeting of non-NDA chief
ministers is political?
A.
Absolutely political. Many of the chief ministers, if I am permitted to
say so, consult astrologers. They say something in public and do something
different in private. I don't know why the Marxists are so upset over
an astrology course. Their philosophy of Marxism has completely failed
in today's world.But isn't Marxism still taught in the universities? Has
anyone objected to its being taught? Why should astrology be discarded
because some Marxists think it is fake? Some say that stem cell research
is unethical. Is that the reason why we should stop it? Some say sex should
not be discussed in a public forum. Has it prevented us from introducing
sex education in schools?
Q. It is said that secular sensibilities
were offended when the UGC earlier appended the prefix Vedic to astrology.
Why should there be a religious attribute?
A. It
is the UGC's thinking, not mine. In my opinion, Vedic astrology is the
oldest system of astrology. But that does not mean that Vedic astrology
should not take into the account the recent developments in astronomy,
cosmology, and so on. Vedic astrology, as I understand it, is based on
information provided by the scholars of the Vedic times.
Q. Is it a fact that the UGC has recently
passed another proposal for a science degree in Human Consciousness which
has a large section devoted to the yogic sciences?
A. I
am not at all involved in the affairs of the UGC, as I told you earlier.
But yogic sciences are taught all over the western world, as far as I
know.
Q. Is the UGC unanimous on these matters?
A.
No information about a difference of opinion in the UGC has reached me.
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