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INTERVIEW
I
can’t do chamchagiri: Uma Bharti
An
interview by INDIA TODAY
Deputy Editor Swapan
Dasgupta.
A few hours
after meeting Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Home Minister L.K.
Advani last Thursday to explain her resignation, Uma Bharti spoke to INDIA
TODAY Deputy Editor Swapan Dasgupta. Excerpts:
Q: What
made you decide to resign from the Lok Sabha?
A: There were many little things but what really set me thinking was
my experience with the casual employees agitation in Bhopal. My agitation
was not against economic reforms. I was just saying that don't make victims
of the poorest of the poor. There are two points. I pleaded with my state
party leader, I won't name him, to issue a statement that if Uma Bharti
is arrested the BJP would launch a statewide agitation. He said he would
do it. He didn't do it. I could have called out the party workers but
it would have led to a division in the party. Then, after I came to Delhi,
Advani told Venkiah Naidu to send a team of party MPs to investigate the
matter. Shivraj Singh Chauhan and Ramdas Agarwala were to comprise the
team. But some other very senior leader, I won't take his name too, told
Venkiah not to do anything. He said, Uma raises these frivolous issues.
Don't take any notice of them. The team never went. I was hurt, extremely
hurt. Since I was in politics to fight for the poor, I concluded I would
have to search for a different route to do that. I remembered my experience
between 1984 and 1989 when I was not an MP. We didn't have any government
then and I was an ordinary BJP worker more involved in the religious field
than the political field. What I managed to do then, I haven't managed
in my 11 years as an MP. Yes, I fought national issues like Ayodhya and
Hubli but on issues concerning the poor, I couldn't do anything.
I feel it's
the political system that's failing. There's too much uncertainty, too
frequent elections. There's assimilation of parties but no assimilation
of ideology. Today, all political parties want to be instant hits. That's
why there is no radical change because everyone is looking to the next
election. Today's political system isn't helping the country. The parliamentary
system hasn't failed, but the political system has. Our leaders and parties
have become a joke. Elections are a choice between the bad and worse.
Not being
an MP or a minister I can't do any development work. I can't build roads
and school. But there is something I can do. I can give self-respect to
the poor. Believe me, that's what Laloo Yadav has given the poor in Bihar.
They can live with some dignity, izzat. That's no less important than
food. I think I can give the poor this respect by being outside the political
system.
Q: But
with this action haven't you proved you are temperamental?
A:
If
I am temperamental, it's in my personal life, with friends. People say
I am conceited, vain, arrogant, and stubborn. But I am not unstable. My
commitment is to the poor. I am not changing my direction; I am changing
my route. But I will not say politics is dirty. There are still good people
in politics, in all parties. But more in the BJP. Politics is a good system
but I feel I can work better outside politics.
There is
another personal reason. When I first came to Parliament in 1989, I was
determined to fight for the poor. Then I got involved in the Ayodhya movement,
with Hindutva. This didn’t affect the VHP people because they were
outside politics. But those of us who were in politics like Advani, Murli
Manohar Joshi and myself got on the wrong side of a very ideological media
and faced problems. Then I had to face caste bias, class bias and severe
gender bias.
Q: Are
you referring to the label ..
A:
Don't
even mention it. It all started in 1991 after I had a run-in Parliament
with Madhavrao Scindia. It may be a laughing matter for sophisticated
city folks and such a label may even flatter some. But I work in the villages.
There it carries a different meaning. It suggests I am too familiar with
men. It suggests something disgusting. It detracts from my real work.
Some years ago a newspaper called me the prettiest politician in Madhya
Pradesh. I wasn't amused because I felt people were viewing me differently.
When you project someone people start viewing you in the light of that
projection. A problem arises between your appeal and your projection.
The jealousy of some of my women colleagues also contributed to this.
After the Ayodhya movement I reached national stature, they didn't.
Q: Weren't
they also referring to your ambition?
A:
This
is the same issue of a mismatch between appeal and projection. If you
keep saying I am angry because I wasn't made minister, then everything
I do gets colored by that perception. In Madhya Pradesh, I am exasperated
by having to deny that I am conducting a movement merely to become Chief
Minister. It's not that I don't want to be something. But I am the last
person to be ambitious. There are people far more ambitious than me. I
can't do chamchagiri of the leaders. After I quit the Government in January,
I have never sought any other post. Not even in the party. I may be ambitious
but not as ambitious as people make out to be.
Q:Haven’t
some of the problems arisen on account of speculation over your personal
life?
A:
When
I was 16, I told Anandamoyee Ma that I wanted to take sanyas. She told
me to wait till I am 25. Rajmata Scindia took me to Pejawar Swami in Udipi
in 1989. He read my horoscope and told me that I must first become an
MP. He would then see the change in me after I became MP. He told me that
if after that you still want to take sanyas, I will give you sanyas.
I won with
a record margin and immediately got involved in the Ayodhya movement.
During the movement I came in touch with Bhaurao Deoras (of the RSS).
He introduced me to this leader in the BJP and said you must talk to him
to gain some knowledge of economic and financial matters. I found him
very intelligent and I thought him Mr Right. I think the chemistry was
working on both the sides. He didn't tell me anything and till today he
hasn't told me he wanted to marry me. He told Advani and Bhaurao.
After the
1991 election, Advani told me that the person wanted to marry me. I said
I did too. I consulted my elder brother. He asked me the person's financial
status and caste. I didn't even know what caste he was. My family always
wanted to arrange my marriage. They tried twice. In February 1987 I actually
had to turn away the baratis from the door. They had arranged my marriage
without even consulting me! He was a very good boy but I didn't want to
get married. So when I said I was getting married they were happy.
Then Bhaurao
called me and said something. He said I see Indira Gandhi in you and I
see Deendayal Upadhya in him. When you get married you will be very happy
for two-three years and then other things will come. But if you sacrifice
that happiness both of you can contribute so much to the nation. That
day I decided to abandon marriage plans and take sanyas.
Q: You
say you have left politics. But you haven't left the BJP. So have you
actually left politics?
A:
There is a reason. In the Bundelkhand area I inspired thousands and thousands
of poor people to become BJP members. They never believed in the ideology
of the BJP. After I introduced them to the BJP, they became members. If
I resigned from the BJP, it would be letting them down and confusing them.
For me politics is BJP. I recruited so many people to the BJP. If I leave
the party I would leave so many disillusioned people.
Q: So,
at the end of the day, how would you assess Uma Bharti?
A:
She has one big flaw. She decides something and expects people to follow
her. She can't seem to go by collective decisions. She is not one for
teamwork. Then she allows emotions to prevail. That's why I am what I
am, where I am. One day I decided that politics is not for me and I leave.
Leaving many people in the lurch, crying.
Q: And
the future?
A:
I have selected three parts of India --Bundelkand, Palamau and Bolangir,
Kalahandi. I don't want to do social work or form a NGO. I am going to
organise people to fight against poverty. Do you know the three people
who inspire me? Hanumanji, Shivaji and Che Guevara.
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